The Muse in Music - Perspectives from Tim Corpus, Composer and Lake Forest Symphony Administrator

By, Dan Perttu

This time on the Muse in Music, I have the great pleasure of interviewing Tim Corpus, Composer and Executive Director at the Lake Forest Symphony Orchestra. Tim is particularly unique because he has perspectives both as a composer and as an orchestra administrator, and I'm excited to share them with you.

Dan: I always love to ask fellow musicians this question, usually to start off with. What music inspires you the most? What repertoire do you love? And, why do you compose?

Tim: Like many people, I love a wide variety of music that changes day-to-day. On any given day I'm listening to concert music, film scores and rock music. My roots in music are really from 90s grunge and early 2000s punk, so I do hold that music in a high place. Bands like The Hotelier, Pinegrove, Brand New and The Wonder Years are some of my current favorites. When it comes to classical, I love orchestral music. Lately I’ve been enjoying the orchestral music of William Walton and Debussy. Have you heard the film score to “Scaramouchie” by Victor Young? It’s absolutely terrific. When it comes to my all-time favorites. I am always in the mood to listen to Music for 18 Musicians, Appalachian Spring, and Mahler 9.

I compose because it is my best creative outlet. I enjoy performing, but I have so much music of my own, that I have to write it down. Some music, especially commissions, are written for others and have audiences in mind. However, a lot of my music is written just for me. It's a fine balance in serving the audience and being a creative outlet.

Dan: As an Executive Director of an orchestra, a composer, and a percussionist, how do the various aspects of your career inform each other? What aspects of your job do you like the most?

Tim: I think that each of those jobs feeds the other. Being a percussionist taught me so much about music. Half of the time you (as a percussionist) are sitting in the back of the orchestra doing nothing. For me, those rehearsals where I was often tacet were an opportunity for me to watch and learn about each of the instrument sections and how they work. This was really my first education in orchestration as a composer. Being a composer introduced me to the business side of our industry. I was applying for grants, contacting other musicians and learning all about project plans and budgets. Eventually that knowledge led me to working in arts administration. Having had time performing and composing, I have a good grasp on the life of the musicians. I have a deep respect and great pride for the musicians in my orchestra. Now that I have worked with orchestras from the administrative side, I have more of an understanding about what conductors and orchestras need from a composer. Performers, administrators and composers are all part of this ecosystem, and each one is a critical part of the puzzle.

As an Executive Director, one of the things I like most is being able to have an impact on my workplace. We work incredibly hard trying to be creative about the orchestra experience to draw in new audiences. There are a lot of great ideas coming from our musicians, the Board of Directors and the staff. Right now, no ideas are off the table. We are trying to build something really different here.

Dan: As a musician and as an artistic administrator, you sometimes work with living composers. Do you have preferences for certain aesthetic orientations or styles in new music? What does this imply for your thoughts on programming?

Tim: As an Executive Director, my job is to oversee the business operations of the orchestra and to help facilitate growth for the organization. As a composer, I am thrilled that the spectrum of music is so varied today and I find that very fascinating. There is a delicate balance for an organization between performing what they think will sell and programming what is artistically important. I have a great music director, Vladimir Kulenovic, who shares the same beliefs I do. We work very hard to program a season that is artistically relevant while being aesthetically pleasing. We oftentimes program what we believe is best for the audience and the orchestra, sometimes that is contemporary music and sometimes it’s not. This season, we are celebrating the bicentennial of Illinois and we felt it necessary to recognize our amazing living Illinois composers, including female composers. We are fortunate enough to have amazing composers like Augusta Read Thomas and Stacy Garrop here in Illinois that we can work with. Not only does this concert feature four living composers, but we have also included the show stopping “La Mer” by Debussy. It's a good balance of new music mixed with an old standard. I would like to see orchestras able to perform more contemporary music; it is where our industry needs to go. The industry as a whole is trying to figure out how to respond to the needs of our audiences and it’s important for audiences to be vocal about what they want.

Dan: That leads well to my next question. In what ways do you think orchestras in general could collaborate with contemporary composers that would enhance the new music scene and its reach to audiences?

Tim: Collaboration is good for both sides, and I’m always happy when it works. We have a composer-in-residence here at the Lake Forest Symphony, and it has been a great way to educate audiences about what composers do and classical music in general. We have also started a chamber music series called the Salon Series that features Symphony musicians performing the music they want to play. These intimate concerts have been incredibly successful and blend a variety of styles from world music to baroque to jazz. This model is something I think other organizations can follow and we plan to expand. In this series we’re able to introduce audiences to a variety of styles. One of the critical pieces of this series is that it is not in a concert hall. We are able to use a variety of spaces for performances that will engage audiences.

In addition to composers-in-residence, we would like to find a way to provide orchestral readings for composers in Illinois. This is a situation where we are all in support of the program, we just need the sponsorship or financial support to do so.

Dan: Well, thanks, Tim, for your interesting perspectives as a composer and executive director. I learned a lot from you! Thanks for talking with me.

Tim: Thank you!

The Muse in Music - Boris Brott on New Music, Bernstein, and Stravinsky

By Dan Perttu

For this blog post, I am delighted to interview conductor Boris Brott.

Maestro Brott is one of the most internationally recognized Canadian conductors, holding major posts as Music Director and Principal Guest Conductor in Canada, Europe and the United States. He enjoys an international career as guest conductor, educator, motivational speaker and cultural ambassador.

Currently, Mr. Brott is Founding Music Director and Laureate Conductor of the New West Symphony, California, Artistic Director of the McGill Chamber Orchestra, Montreal and Principal Guest Conductor of the Teatro Petruzzelli in Bari Italy. Maestro Brott is Artistic Director of Brott Music Festivals, which was established in 1987, as Ontario’s principal classical music festival and is home to the National Academy Orchestra of Canada, Canada’s unique professional training orchestra. Internationally, Mr. Brott has served as Assistant Conductor to the New York Philharmonic under Leonard Bernstein, and as Music Director and Conductor for the Royal Ballet, Covent Garden (two years), and Northern Sinfonia (five years), and the BBC Welsh Symphony (seven years). In addition, Mr. Brott’s extensive guest-conducting appearances have been in Mexico, the United States, South America, Central America, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Scandinavia, Japan, Korea, Israel, the Netherlands.

Dan: My first question is what music inspires you as a conductor? Particularly, what contemporary music inspires you?

Boris: Well, I like a lot of contemporary music of various kinds. I really believe that a conductor has a responsibility to perform music of our own time. I must say I have a penchant, if you will, for dramatic works. They are colorful and use the orchestra and instruments to their maximum advantage with extra musical or instrumental techniques. From my perspective, it is the color in the language that interests me and inspires me. The music can be of a non-descriptive nature. That is, it is not necessarily program music. But having a program doesn’t hurt either.

Dan: When you talk about “color,” are you talking about orchestration or timbre?

Boris: That, and the color of the music on its own. Piano music has color, too. But I must confess that orchestrated music interests me more.

Dan: Absolutely.

Boris: And these days, I’m doing a lot of opera. The use of the human voice in an effective way is also fascinating to me. Finally, I also am interested in music that involves different cultures. We were always interested in diverse music in Canada because we’ve always prided ourselves in being a multicultural society. I think it has worked, probably best, in Canada than all of the other places I can think of. The political framework of this country has encouraged cultures beyond white, European ones in our own midst. Now there’s a tremendous explosion of interest in music of First Nations. I find the music fascinating, and I program and commission it.

Dan: That sounds like a wonderful perspective. I know many people in the United States share your values, yet it’s not always apparent to the outside world that we do. However, I really like learning more about your Canadian perspectives.

Boris: I have spent time in the United States, so I am well aware of the plethora of the interesting and effective music being written. There is so much music being written today that composers have a great desire to voice their expression in writing, and in writing for orchestra particularly.

Dan: It’s wonderful on the one hand, but there’s so much new music. How do you sort

through it? How does the “good stuff rise to the top,” so to speak?

Boris: That’s often tricky and difficult because reading a score is a laborious process. It’s much more difficult than reading a novel. To hear what is on a printed page is a process. You can’t just peruse it; it’s not fair to it to peruse it. And often, the electronic means of realizing the score, albeit better than nothing, doesn’t allow you to hear the humanity in the sound, if you will. MIDI sampling is still rudimentary by comparison. Some composers are willing to go to that trouble, and quite honestly, I appreciate it because it’s a great shortcut for me in reading a great number of compositions. Otherwise, I’d be influenced only by people I know, or people I know of, as opposed to new people I’ve never heard of.

Dan: Of course! This actually brings me to my next question. Do you have preferences to specific aesthetic orientations or styles? What does that imply for your programming? It sounds like your programming is very diverse, but I am curious to follow up a little bit on that.

Boris: I was involved in so many orchestras where a lot of contemporary music was performed. I have a very eclectic palate, if you will. I feel like, in a way, a conductor is like an actor. We put on a cloak, and that cloak is the composition we are performing. And, you enter into the spirit of that composition as much as possible. From my perspective, it's a joy to do that, to discover new aesthetics. I would hesitate to choose a particular aesthetic, or say I really like this type of music. I know I don’t personally like some music. To be honest, I feel the Second Viennese School was a big mistake. It really didn’t add anything. On the contrary, it took a lot away. On the other hand, this you might find strange: if I go back to some of the scores of Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern, I do feel real tension and release. I also feel a real diatonicism, even though it’s not really diatonic. There’s a real sense of harmony within it. It's not really foreign. After all, what I think music is about is creating a tension and resolution.

Dan: That’s very interesting. I agree with some of your thoughts on aesthetics as well. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve picked up on some tension and release in some serialist music, but I can’t say I always listen to it by my fireside.

Boris: No! The problem is this language has not yet found a real audience of any number of people. And one, as a conductor, is always balancing one’s program against the need to have people listen to it. You need to sell tickets for people to come. I don’t really care if they buy tickets or not, but I want them to come. It doesn’t make sense to perform music in a hall for very few people. I try to program in a way and find auditorium sizes appropriate for the amount of interest I think will generate. If, for example, I’m going to do a concert where even some of the music is going to be very difficult for a “normal audience” to listen to, I will go to a smaller hall.

Dan: That’s understandable.

Boris: I want it to be filled. To play to 100 people in a 2,000-person auditorium is soul destroying for anybody, including the people who came there. Dan: Oh, yes. At the college where I work, we always worry about these issues too. Boris: And I think you know the other part of the issue. As a music director of an organization, you are constantly called in to bring in audiences and justify your programming based on the audiences it obtains. For many years, I was associated with broadcasting orchestras. I was the Director of CBC Winnipeg Orchestra and Music Director of the BBC National Orchestra of Wales. Now, of course, the rules there are very different. And the masters you were serving had very different gains and objectives. And in many ways, it was very refreshing. They wanted you to take chances. They wanted you to play new music. They wanted to hear old music that hasn’t been heard before. It was an interest outside of attracting an audience.

Dan: Sure.

Boris: And that was very liberating for me. I could do all kinds of things. In fact, I was encouraged to bring in new thoughts, ideas, and aesthetics. Now, when you’re running an orchestra that is balancing a budget, it’s a different story.

Dan: Of course. Along these lines, I was very curious to fold in your international perspectives on some of these things. I understand you’ve conducted in Italy as well, right?

Boris: Yes I have. Quite a lot.

Dan: As far as programming is concerned, are audiences’ interests in music different in Canada as compared to America or Italy?

Boris: Well, I can’t give you much perspective on that. Except, I was really shocked when I started doing concerts for young people in Italy. In the birthplace of Western music, if one could say that, there was so little information being given to school children. And they absolutely had no idea of any “art” music. They knew pop music, and to some extent, Italian film music. But they had no knowledge of art music at all. From the standpoint of audiences, I think it’s very similar. There is a smaller group of people who are interested in new art music. I would say, in the major sense, I’ve had the pleasure of performing it and getting to know there is a significant interest. I think those pockets exist almost everywhere in the world -- certainly every country I’ve been in. I couldn’t really contrast this any one way or another. I don’t find there’s a greater or lesser interest to this type of music across Europe. Is it a large audience? No, it’s not. But then again, was it ever intended for a large audience? Even if you go back historically to Baroque music, it was intended for a very small percentage of the overall public. It was not a mass media by any means, and it still isn’t.

Dan: I’m not entirely surprised by this.

Boris: Now, it must be said that what I’ve been doing in Italy is mostly opera, and what I’ve been asked to do is more in the realm of 19th-century Italian opera. The Italians are very loyal to their own and very interested in their own. They’re not as much interested in anything else. Certainly in the opera houses. They’re quite happy to hear Rossini, Vivaldi, and all of the Italian composers. Certainly the audience is less interested even in German or French music for that matter.

Dan: So, with respect for contemporary music, how would you characterize the aesthetic trends currently, from your perspective. We talked a little bit about the second Viennese School and the influences that they had on the 20th century. But in the music of today, a lot of people have different views on what the actual trends are going on right now.

Boris: Well, I think the beauty of it is that it’s so eclectic. People are able to develop their own voices. For example, I enjoy compositions that celebrate the music of the First Nations, and many are celebrating them in a very contemporary way. Sometimes they include improvisatory elements, or they bring in musicians who were not necessarily trained in the “Western” tradition. These musicians bring in their own insight and creativity.

Dan: Yes, I love music that uses performance practices from different cultures.

Boris: Also, for the last few months, I’ve been very involved in Bernstein's music because of the 100th anniversary of his birth and because of my relationship with him as his assistant in the late 1960’s. In some of Bernstein’s music it was hard at first to discern the themes, and at first I couldn’t see a language that was identifiable in his music. Now, looking back, I definitely see the language. The benefit of 50 years is huge. Dan: When I think about Candide and Chichester Psalms, I can latch on to themes in those. But when I think of some of the other works, it requires more concentration.

Boris: The sixth interval is there so much, and his way of combining polytonality and jazz is so compelling. All of that stuff is there regardless of what you’re listening to, whether it’s the Jeremiah Symphony, Candide, or whatever.

Dan: That’s true. Boris: Yes! It is now, but it wasn’t so obvious when I first got to know it. It seemed so different. I just did West Side Story last week in an orchestral version. When you just listen to the music, you hear so much of the influence of the Jeremiah Symphony. There is a voice that is Bernstein. You need to have perspective on a lot of music by an individual to be able to identify that voice. In my programming, I like to latch on to a specific composer and then do a lot of his or her works in a given season. I find that provides a more interesting perspective for the audience.

Dan: That’s interesting. So, on the one hand, even if you don’t have a wide diversity of people in that season, you gain depth in conveying it to the audience. They become more familiar with that composer and even build a relationship with their music. Boris: And also, as a conductor, I build a relationship with them. I like to think that in some way, shape, or form, I would have loved to have been a composer, but I never had the courage. So, through my existing relationship with composers, and helping them perform their works, I contribute to the composer’s creative process. It’s almost a team effort. Dan: Yeah! That segues nicely into my last question, in what ways should conductors interact with contemporary composers and what does this imply for programming in the future. You’ve already answered some of that. Do you have anything to add?

Boris: I think if you have a need to create, you should create. You chose and have a particular voice. As a conductor, you choose a particular creator, or group of creators that you like. And you do a lot of their music. In performing it, you will also become involved with the writing of it. There are very few composers I know who say, “Look. This is what I’ve written. Just do what I say and don’t contribute to it.” That said, with my relationship to Pierre Monteux, I can reach back. I did know Stravinsky. He certainly didn’t like people monkeying with his works in any way. You either did it his way or forget it. But I think that was the only person.

Dan: And, if a composer wants to continue working with a conductor, then he or she shouldn’t have that kind of a closed attitude. As for Stravinsky, that was a different time, but he also had the fame behind him to do that too.

Boris: Yes, and particularly at the time when I knew him. It was around the 50th anniversary of the Rite of Spring.

Dan: Most composers that I know are very interested in the collaborative part of bringing a piece to life.

Boris: And I like that very much! It allows me to be involved without exposing everything, as I feel I would if I were writing music that was solely my own. So, instead, I can influence in a positive sense as a conductor, but the composition is written by others.

Dan: And it’s a living art form. As you say, the performers bring it to life. You have to have the wonderful, creative performers. Well, those are all of my questions for now, though I would love to follow up with you more some other time about Bernstein. But for now, thank you for your time. I appreciate learning your perspectives on these issues!

Boris: Thank you!

The Muse in Music: Michael Torke on Musical Form and Emotion - and Old People

Photo by Bryan Hainer

By, Dan Perttu

This time on the Muse in Music blog, I am honored to host the preeminent composer Michael Torke for a rich, organic discussion on what drives him as a composer. Mr. Torke's music has been called "some of the most optimistic, joyful and thoroughly uplifting music to appear in recent years" (Gramophone). Hailed as a "vitally inventive composer" (Financial Times) and "a master orchestrator whose shimmering timbral palette makes him the Ravel of his generation" (New York Times), Torke has created a substantial body of works in virtually every genre. Career highlights include: Color Music (1985–89), a series of orchestral pieces that each explore a single, specific color; Javelin, recorded both for Argo and for John William’s Summon the Heroes, the official 1996 Olympics album; Four Seasons, an oratorio commissioned by the Walt Disney Company to celebrate the millennium; Strawberry Fields, whose “Great Performances” broadcast was nominated for an Emmy Award; and two evening-length story ballets, The Contract, and An Italian Straw Hat, for James Kudelka and the National Ballet of Canada.

Dan: Let's start with something fundamental. What drives you as a composer and why do you do it?

Michael: That’s the hardest question of all. One way to answer it is to address why anyone creates art at all. Because it seems so impractical, and quite an odd activity for anyone to do. So why do we do it? That’s the first question. The second question is why do I personally compose; is there something in my biography or my genes that drives me to do it?

So, to address the first general question: when human beings have enough resources to feed and to shelter themselves, they then have extra time. And when you have extra time, you start asking philosophical questions, like “Why are we here?” and “What’s the meaning of it all?” One way people address these questions is through religion. Another way is through art. Art provides a kind of nourishment to the soul that gives life meaning. Then, on the individual level, people seem to have a need to express themselves. The need is so strong. Look at Facebook. Everyone now is a writer, a publisher, an expresser. The urge to “share” seems to be as strong as life itself.

And then for me personally, I don’t quite know. To make things and express things? My father was an architect, so he was always building. He was drawing. I think that made an impact and was an inspiration for me. I like to make things, and I like to draw. I like to impose form on things. Another aspect is that when you’re a person with a lot of energy inside, that energy can come out in positive or negative ways. You could become an axe murderer or a drug addict if the energy does not have a healthy expression. However, through the good fortune of receiving an education and getting musical training, you can take that energy, focus it, and use it to make compositions. I find this to be the most gratifying thing I do; it gives meaning and shape to my life. I love imposing form on things that produce emotion. We think emotion is the opposite of form. Form is cold and mathematical. Emotions are spontaneous. I actually think music is a wonderful way for the two to come together. What I’ve learned working as a composer is that, generally speaking, the clearer the form, the stronger the emotion that the form produces.

Dan: That’s very cogent. I sympathize with the idea that the clearer the form, the more significant the emotion, or the more the emotion can come through. In so many respects, emotions follow cognition. That leads me to the next question, which is about your compositional process. You gave a very cogent idea of why you compose, so then how do you do it? I know that’s a very general question. I’m particularly interested in how form and emotion interact in your music.

Michael: There’s this idea that when you compose you have to start with exceptional material in order to be able to develop it. On the contrary, I believe what you start with is almost arbitrary and banal. It’s what you do with it that distinguishes you from everyone else and gives you your personal voice. That’s where writer’s block comes from: it’s when a composer starts to think whatever he puts down is a cliché, or has been “done before.” Fundamentally, that is nonsense: are you never going to use middle C because it is found in prior compositions? It’s not the idea; it’s what you do with it. I used to say years ago, “What is this stupidest idea I could come up with?”

Dan: (chuckles)

Michael: In its banality, I can potentially develop some really wonderful structures. That’s one approach. Another is to use a style you never been exposed to before. I knew nothing about Bluegrass music for example, when Tessa Lark, a violinist from Kentucky, approached me about writing a Bluegrass violin concerto. This was interesting because it meant that my ears had to be opened up. I still may not have completely absorbed the genre, but I increased my understanding, and it was hugely stimulating. I began to learn the language. I learned how to write Bluegrass themes of my own that would be recognizable in the style. Then, from that foundation I developed the large form.

Dan: Yeah, it’s a language you have to be immersed in. Some people love or don’t love the genre, but you can tell when music is being spoken with a “classical” accent as opposed to music with a “Bluegrass” accent. Did you feel like you ever lost your “Non-Bluegrass” accent? Did you feel like you were able to speak the language ultimately?

Michael: Yes. I felt that I could speak the language, but I didn’t feel like I lost my personality. Bluegrass and Irish music are very presentational. Theme A is followed by theme B. End. So once I began to develop my themes from a micro level to the macro level, an entirely new reality emerges. By design, this becomes a hybrid. My concerto is not simply a medley of themes stitched together. My hope is to breathe new life in the concerto form. And it is a hybrid of performance style because Tessa and I made the executive decision not to amplify the soloist (as is customary in fiddle playing). The loose-limped bow technique of Bluegrass might have to combine with the more aggressive bowing found in classical concertos, despite my making the accompaniment as transparent as I could.

Dan: I resonate with this experience because I wrote a piece called A Scottish Triptych for piano trio. It uses authentic Scottish fiddling techniques within the fabric of the Trio, so you have to be able to perform both as a classical musician as well as a Scottish fiddler. I also put in the performance notes how to pull that off. And thanks to my wife's dissertation, I was able to notate it.

Michael: But see, what you’re doing is expanding the vocabulary of music. I see that as a really healthy thing.

Dan: Going back to form and emotion. Where does emotion come in to this?

Michael: Here’s my feeling. When musical material (which we can call “A”) either moves to something like A1 because it gets bigger, or it moves to B, then something significant has happened. In that movement I think we feel something. When the music grows and then subsides, we have a reaction. To be more specific: in order to make music go from either A to B or A to A1, how do you get there? The listener is following you and that presents a formal problem. There has to be material that, once we hear it, it moves forward because you were hearing sameness and differentness at the same time. That is a technique for development. How can I make my music, as it unfolds, sound recognizable, but different, so everything relates, as it moves forward? These are all formal problems. In the absence of form, you hook up a bunch of themes. To me, that’s just presentation. Form is making these elements have recognizable features that move forward, share properties, but are always different.

Dan: Yeah! You made me think of a couple of things when you said this. Are you familiar with mirror neurons?

Michael: No.

Dan: According to some scholars, mirror neurons are involved in empathy and responses to emotion. They perceive and reflecting input. That input could be an emotional expression, or an emotional experience of another person. You know how emotions are often contagious. I wonder if that is due in part to mirror neurons. I’m not an expert, so I hesitate to go too far with this, but I wonder if there is a neuro-physiological phenomenon going on with mirror neurons in terms of emotional experience when we are riding the waves of an emotional musical experience. Musical form is doing whatever it’s doing and that is actually mirroring an actual experience through the neurons.

Michael: That could be it.

Dan: I wonder.

Michael: One thing to point out in reference to mirror neurons—it sounds like a very cognitive part of the brain. My older sister’s partner is suffering from early-onset Alzheimer’s. She’s near the end. What we’ve noticed in her decline is not a surprise; her last hold-out of any understanding of anything is music. Perhaps music comes from a deeply primitive part of the brain. Maybe it’s one of the last things to be touched by whatever is scarring the neurons in Alzheimer's. So it’s some deep part of the brain . . . but maybe the mirror neurons are going on in there even more!

Dan: I would be really interested to dig into that more. Going back to form, you were talking about formal problems to solve. Linking this back to emotional meaning, what are your ideas on the thought of building some sort of cognitive expectation through the form and then violating it somehow as the source of emotion? Is that what you’re suggesting here?

Michael: I believe that is a common technique in creating beauty, emotion, and art. When you set up expectations and then do something unexpected is how you create frisson. One of the basic properties in art is setting up and defying expectations.

Dan: On the small scale, we know that deceptive cadences continue to sound deceptive even if we know they are coming because they defy schematic memory. However, do you think the average listener can perceive large-scale violations? On the local level (such as with the deceptive cadence) it’s obvious, but on the large scale, it may not be?

Michael: Yeah. I do.

Dan: Oh? You do! I’m curious.

Michael: I think even uneducated listeners are getting way more out of music than anyone expects. Ok, so they can’t put it into words, but who cares!? Do we have to understand electricity to use it in everyday life? What fascinates me is when there is a poorly-put-together piece, in whatever way that could possibly mean, the audience senses it and is unimpressed. The applause is titter, titter, titter; the composer can barely get off the stage. But when a piece is well constructed, the audience can sense that even on a first hearing. They don't know why, there’s something about it that’s compelling. I know there is this argument that states people only appreciate something when it resonates with an aspect of their particular culture and this transaction has nothing to do with a formal critique. I understand that argument, but it doesn’t need to be incompatible with what I just said. I think that audiences really get it, but they may not know why.

Dan: Interesting. So, my last question is a two-part question. From your perspective, what can “classical” composers do to get more support from broader audiences? What can conductors do?

Michael: I may not have any good answers here, but I’ll comment around the issue. One way to think about it is that the artistic administrators are always worried that tomorrow no one will buy tickets! Classical music is all but dead! Then they all cite a common reason. I’ve written a blog called “The Future of Classical Music Audiences.” The argument that I make is as follows. When I was growing up in the 1970’s, I would go to the Milwaukee Symphony and everyone said, “The audience is too old, who will be listening in the future?” By the 80’s, commentators across the country bemoaned the aging audience. In the 90’s, we were warned the median age of classical concertgoers was 67, and disaster was predicted. By the aughts, the argument was repeated, “What are we going to do about the aging audiences?” Well, I’m thinking, people don’t live forever!

DP: (chuckles)

Michael: That’s kind of like saying, “We should rip down all the hospitals because you find so many old people being treated! They’re going to die out, and there will be no more business.” But there will always be old people! And what a great demographic! Why? Older people tend to have more money and more time because they’re retired, and they have more of a demand and appreciation for cultural nourishment. This is a great demographic! Why do people think classical music needs to be run like Madison Avenue and appeal to 13 to 21 year-olds? I’ve never understood that. Why are old people so evil?

Dan: I’ve wondered some of these thoughts myself.

Michael: There are some other factors. I spend half my time here in Las Vegas. The Las Vegas Philharmonic was blessed because a new hall was built only about eight years ago. It has great acoustics in a wonderful neo-deco building. The new conductor they have had for about 5 years, Donato Cabrera, is bringing the orchestra to a new level. Here’s the funny issue: every concert is sold out. Is that because Donato is a good salesman? Maybe. Is it because his concerts are varied? Maybe. Is it because they play so well? Undoubtedly. But maybe it’s also something else. Las Vegas is a booming city. Its population is 2.1 million. We’re soon going to have an NFL team—we’re building a big stadium—and there are a lot of retired people who are coming here. Given that Las Vegas’s main industry is the casino industry, and that, after a while, you grow tired of that, you find want something more. You want some culture! There’s such a thirst! “Oh honey! We could go to the symphony tonight!” People love it! So why is there such fear that classical music is going to die? Why don’t we focus on the good things that music provides? It’s like a medicine or a religious ritual! People love it!

Dan: True!

Michael: Obviously there are big problems when we see orchestras going bankrupt, but I think that’s a management problem more than anything else. Experts would tell me that no, it’s actually very complicated. It has to do with boards and institutional politics. But I just don’t think that classical-music-making on the symphonic level is just going to die. It’s like saying “If we don’t plant any trees none will ever grow.” Look out the window of a transcontinental airplane flight, and all you see is green down there! Whoever planted all those trees? Obviously, few were planted by humans on this large scale. There must be such a life force (behind trees) that just wants to take over. I almost feel that way about classical music. I know my analogy is weak, it’s not the same, since we do have to nurture it, foster it, and support it. But it seems like there is a more essential demand for classical music than all of these worried artistic administrators would have us believe.

What can composers do? I mean, I don’t know, write better music? I think if we wrote really great music, it’d be played more. Maybe when we write shoddy music, it shouldn’t be played. That begs a lot of questions: what makes good music? Who decides? That has a very complicated answer. The only thing that is really reliable is that over time, the good rises to the top. Sometimes it takes hundreds of years, and even then, it isn’t infallible. Think of the fact that the glories of Greek and Roman civilizations were superseded by a thousand years of the Dark Ages before the Renaissance revived these ideas. There could be another thousand-year period with people chanting and pounding on drums again. If this happened, you might hear, “Oh yeah! We knew about all this classical music, but we don’t do that anymore because it’s against our religion.” Another thousand years could go by before another Renaissance would rediscover this music. So maybe everything will just die out. Everything comes to dust. However, this scenario could be so far in the future that I’ll be long dead before that ever happens.

I don’t know if a composer can really do anything unless we get into some sort of political or artistic outreach. I was once a composer-in-residence with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. Besides commissioning and recording my music, one of my main jobs was to help with their educational initiative. I went into classrooms of teenagers with Scottish accents so thick I could not understand what they were saying! And then these students came to the concerts. It was hands-on audience building for sure, and for them, listening to my “new music” was more natural even than listening to the older music on the program.

But back to composers writing better music. That is a bit of a glib notion, when you consider all that Beethoven did for German music; every composer who came after him for the next 80 to 100 years was influenced by his achievements. So you can say that he did more for the sake of music and for audiences than anyone, but as he was sitting there at the piano putting notes together, did he think “Well let’s see. What can I do to help the cause of broadening the industry?” I can’t imagine he was really thinking about that. He just happened to be a genius. So, I don’t know if you can predetermine this too much.

Dan: Well, thank you. This has been very, very interesting, and I appreciate your taking the time to talk with me!

Michael: Thank you.